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the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

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By empirefalls - Apr 19, 2004, 11:29 PM
Post #1 of 162

The olde joke goes;the day of the Boston Marathon is the only day of the year a black person can going running through the predominately WHITE,LIBERAL communities of the Boston Marathon route without a resident calling the cops.


Massachusetts,Home of Ted Kennedy,Pro-Liberal,Pro-Diversity land meanwhile the path of the Boston Marathon goes through several communties all predominately WHITE and Liberal while bypassing the nearby predominately BLACK communities. Racism or a coincidence? Racism.

The Boston Marathon has run the same route,though the same communties for 107 years therefore how could one suggest there is hidden racism in the present day route of the Boston Marathon ?

When the Boston Marathon began in 1897,all the communities along the route of the Marathon and nearby communties were ALL white. Even today's all BLACK communities were all white in 1897.

So how is it the communities the Boston Marathon runs though today have all remained WHITE while the nearby communities of Roxbury,Dorchester,and Mattapan became all BLACK?

The Boston Marathon has a hidden racist element and it is revealed today,April 19,2004.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By adamg - Apr 19, 2004, 11:35 PM
Post #2 of 162 [In reply to]

Are you really an idiot or do you just play one on TV?

Dorchester is hardly all black. Even Mattapan and Roxbury are not all black (you have heard of Mission Hill and Tommy Finneran, no?).

Downtown Framingham, through which the race goes, has a large minority population.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By AmeriKenArtist - Apr 19, 2004, 11:52 PM
Post #3 of 162 [In reply to]

Anyone can buy a computer........

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM
By saltzydog - Apr 19, 2004, 11:55 PM
Post #4 of 162 [In reply to]

Wow. Great, logical argument there. I'm convinced.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By AmeriKenArtist - Apr 19, 2004, 11:57 PM
Post #5 of 162 [In reply to]

Me too....what happened to my drool cup?

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM
By Beso - Apr 20, 2004, 8:42 AM
Post #6 of 162 [In reply to]


In Reply To
The olde joke goes;the day of the Boston Marathon is the only day of the year a black person can going running through the predominately WHITE,LIBERAL communities of the Boston Marathon route without a resident calling the cops.


Massachusetts,Home of Ted Kennedy,Pro-Liberal,Pro-Diversity land meanwhile the path of the Boston Marathon goes through several communties all predominately WHITE and Liberal while bypassing the nearby predominately BLACK communities. Racism or a coincidence? Racism.

The Boston Marathon has run the same route,though the same communties for 107 years therefore how could one suggest there is hidden racism in the present day route of the Boston Marathon ?

When the Boston Marathon began in 1897,all the communities along the route of the Marathon and nearby communties were ALL white. Even today's all BLACK communities were all white in 1897.

So how is it the communities the Boston Marathon runs though today have all remained WHITE while the nearby communities of Roxbury,Dorchester,and Mattapan became all BLACK?

The Boston Marathon has a hidden racist element and it is revealed today,April 19,2004.


I've lived here all of my life and never heard that "old joke". But nice try.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM
By so - Apr 20, 2004, 9:22 AM
Post #7 of 162 [In reply to]

"The Boston Marathon has a hidden racist element and it is revealed today,April 19,2004. "

Revealed by whom? You?
I still don't see the hidden agenda of the marathon...

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By jonallen - Apr 20, 2004, 10:48 AM
Post #8 of 162 [In reply to]

Boston has long had a strong classist society: The Brahmins, the academe, the students and the blue collar workers, but racism in Boston has never been notably worse than in most other US cities. All of the communities you mention do indeed contain a significant number of people of different races, although they are on average quite well off financially, as these are desirable neighborhoods with a correspondingly high real estate value.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By eeka - Apr 20, 2004, 10:55 AM
Post #9 of 162 [In reply to]

Um, I would guess that they chose areas that tend to have wide streets, plenty of access roads on either side, and plenty of roads that can be used to bypass these roads when they're closed. You know, like, for logistical purposes? Other possible routes into the city would involve bridges, overpasses, narrow winding streets, and any number of things that would be impossible to shut down and would be frustrating for runners and would create bottlenecks. The current roads used to enter the city (Comm Ave and Beacon St) are pretty much the widest, straightest roads within the urban part of greater Boston.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By eeka - Apr 20, 2004, 10:56 AM
Post #10 of 162 [In reply to]

Well, I think racism here is worse than in other cities, but I also think that classism is the biggest problem.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By Ron Newman - Apr 20, 2004, 10:58 AM
Post #11 of 162 [In reply to]

This is the single most ridiculous thread that I've seen since I began reading the Wicked Good Conference.

The Marathon has run on the same route from Ashland to Back Bay since 1897, with minor adjustments due to highway construction and sponsorship changes. The start was extended west to Hopkinton in 1924, making the race two miles longer.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By eeka - Apr 20, 2004, 10:58 AM
Post #12 of 162 [In reply to]

BTW, I've heard that stupid joke going something like this:

When you see a Black man running by being chased by 10 White men, you call it the KKK. When you see a Black man running by being chased by thousands of White men, you call it the Boston Marathon.

Unimpressed

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By Vikram - Apr 20, 2004, 12:10 PM
Post #13 of 162 [In reply to]


In Reply To
Well, I think racism here is worse than in other cities, but I also think that classism is the biggest problem.


It's more in-your-face here than in other cities I've been in.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM
By Beso - Apr 20, 2004, 1:14 PM
Post #14 of 162 [In reply to]


In Reply To


In Reply To
Well, I think racism here is worse than in other cities, but I also think that classism is the biggest problem.


It's more in-your-face here than in other cities I've been in.



I think if you live anywhere long enough, you will find prejudice. EVERY PERSON ON EARTH has a prejudice of some sort. it's the reason wars are waged. but all I hear is people say Boston is more racist than X city but they provide no reason as to why they think that way. I don't mean examples, I mean why are people more racist in Boston? Is it the water? there is no proof. You can run into nitwits anywhere...if you live here for 5 years and another city of one year, you will have more incidents in the city in which you've lived the longest.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By eeka - Apr 20, 2004, 1:34 PM
Post #15 of 162 [In reply to]

Beso, that's definitely all true. Conflicts and assumptions and so forth are all part of human nature, and we've all read allegories about how much it actually would suck to live in a utopia.

I think that compared to other places I've lived, Boston does have more going on in terms of coalitions and dialogues and bulletins about racial and class issues, which is great. I also notice that Boston tends to be one of the cities where people are most isolationist and tend to know less about cultures other than their own and tend to be a bit more ethnocentric than in other cities.

In Boston, people generally know what the ballot issues are and what the history of relations between a certain group is, but they don't know which country the guy who bags their groceries every week is from or that "Merry Christmas" is not the best thing to wish him.

Certainly this isn't true of every person in Boston or in any other city, but from my observation, the general flavor here tends to be that people are very very aware of these issues from a larger systematic viewpoint but very very unware of them in a small practical manner. In the Northwest it tends to be actually the almost opposite, where people know what's up with the actual people in their lives, but aren't aware of how these things pan out on a larger scale.

I think perhaps the fast-paced NE mentality lends itself to people being better able to "think big" while the mellow NW mentality lends itself to people being better able to "think locally" or something along these lines. People here don't see that the forest is made of trees and people there see only the closest tree, maybe?

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By eeka - Apr 20, 2004, 1:35 PM
Post #16 of 162 [In reply to]

I'm going to take a moment now to apologize for the heinous grammatical and logical construction of "between a certain group."

Flog me now.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM
By Beso - Apr 20, 2004, 1:46 PM
Post #17 of 162 [In reply to]


In Reply To
Beso, that's definitely all true. Conflicts and assumptions and so forth are all part of human nature, and we've all read allegories about how much it actually would suck to live in a utopia.

I think that compared to other places I've lived, Boston does have more going on in terms of coalitions and dialogues and bulletins about racial and class issues, which is great. I also notice that Boston tends to be one of the cities where people are most isolationist and tend to know less about cultures other than their own and tend to be a bit more ethnocentric than in other cities.

In Boston, people generally know what the ballot issues are and what the history of relations between a certain group is, but they don't know which country the guy who bags their groceries every week is from or that "Merry Christmas" is not the best thing to wish him.

Certainly this isn't true of every person in Boston or in any other city, but from my observation, the general flavor here tends to be that people are very very aware of these issues from a larger systematic viewpoint but very very unware of them in a small practical manner. In the Northwest it tends to be actually the almost opposite, where people know what's up with the actual people in their lives, but aren't aware of how these things pan out on a larger scale.

I think perhaps the fast-paced NE mentality lends itself to people being better able to "think big" while the mellow NW mentality lends itself to people being better able to "think locally" or something along these lines. People here don't see that the forest is made of trees and people there see only the closest tree, maybe?


Very well thought out post. However, please don't equate ignorance with racism. Wishing a Hindu, for example, "Merry Christmas" is not racist. Not knowing what Hindus celebrate is also not racist. People around here SEEM like isolationists becasue people have lived longer in this area than just about any place in America...in other words, you won't find many Daughters of the Revolution who can trace theri roots to California. Families have lived in the NE for decades...I know 90% of the people I call my friends are people I've known since the third grade. I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm open to all people. I'm not like a person who is new to the city who actually has to make new friends. I'm not sure what it makes me but a racist I'm not.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By eeka - Apr 20, 2004, 2:45 PM
Post #18 of 162 [In reply to]

No, I don't think these things make a person a racist. But they do point out the realities of systematic racism and the fact that for whatever reasons, there's a pervasive culture around here of knowing very little about other people's cultural norms. Like, it's not any one person's fault that the public schools here teach very little about culture, but it creates a society of people who have been brought up ethnocentrically. It does no good to go around saying that these people are themselves racist, and that's not at all accurate because it implies that they themselves hate specific people, which I'm sure most of them don't. But I do think that they all contribute to a racist society due to their backgrounds and experiences, which again, are mainly not their fault.

When I had been in Boston for about two months, I was working in a school (a MAAPS school which is therefore is funded by town public school monies and is supposed to mostly adhere to public school norms as far as curriculum etc aside from tailoring it to special kids) and I walked in and one of the younger classes was making "pilgrims" and "Indians" out of paper plates. I was completely shocked. OK, yeah, I understand why this would be happening in Massachusetts, and I know there aren't any kids who I know to identify as Natives in that school, but still, it's an example of covert racism. Due to the fact that Natives are now a TINY minority, especially in this area, it's apparently acceptable to majorly objectify them this way. I mean, we don't go around in our schools making "Black people" out of paper plates for Black History Month, because that would be extremely offensive to just about everyone. As it should be. But since there aren't any Natives readily observable in most of the schools around here, this goes over. I found it very offensive because I grew up with a lot of Natives in my schools and have cousins who are half Native and have tribal affiliation, but most people around here (and sadly in much of the US and the world) aren't going to feel this way. It isn't because they're hateful, but just because there's nothing in their experience that's going to make them immediately think their paper plate project is offensive.

A better idea might be to learn about how Thanksgiving is also a national day of mourning for Natives, and to hook the kids up with a penpal project with tribally affiliated kids and have them e-mail each other about how Thanksgiving is observed in Boston and how it's observed by Natives. That way, the Native kids get a real image of real kids having fun around a Thanksgiving table with their friends and family, and they realize that OK, so the history has in fact gotten bastardized, but these Boston kids and families really aren't barbarians but are just regular people who have fun during their culture's celebrations. The Boston kids learn that the Natives observe the day quite differently, but that they share a similarity in that these kids are also preserving a version of their past and that they look forward to connecting with family and friends and to having their own rituals, and that they're real living people just like them -- not paper plates painted red with big noses and feathers glued to them.

So this is just one example of how to be actively anti-racist without much effort. It doesn't mean that the particular people who have grown up thinking these red paper plates is the norm are racists per se, but it shows how it takes some pretty damn active undoing to move toward a society where we don't do unintentionally racist things like making paper-plate Indians.

(Incidentally, the big grinning buckle-wearing "pilgrims" are pretty offensive to people who're descended from White "settlers" as well, because they also faced disease and hunger and were multi-dimensional people who don't need to be objectified either, and, well, the whole sugar-coated inaccurate depiction of history just doesn't do anyone a whole lot of good.)

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By eeka - Apr 20, 2004, 2:46 PM
Post #19 of 162 [In reply to]

BTW Beso, dontcha think that this obnoxious illogical post at least eventually led to a thread with some intelligent and worthwhile dialogue? ;o)

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM
By Beso - Apr 20, 2004, 3:08 PM
Post #20 of 162 [In reply to]


In Reply To
No, I don't think these things make a person a racist. But they do point out the realities of systematic racism and the fact that for whatever reasons, there's a pervasive culture around here of knowing very little about other people's cultural norms. Like, it's not any one person's fault that the public schools here teach very little about culture, but it creates a society of people who have been brought up ethnocentrically. It does no good to go around saying that these people are themselves racist, and that's not at all accurate because it implies that they themselves hate specific people, which I'm sure most of them don't. But I do think that they all contribute to a racist society due to their backgrounds and experiences, which again, are mainly not their fault.

When I had been in Boston for about two months, I was working in a school (a MAAPS school which is therefore is funded by town public school monies and is supposed to mostly adhere to public school norms as far as curriculum etc aside from tailoring it to special kids) and I walked in and one of the younger classes was making "pilgrims" and "Indians" out of paper plates. I was completely shocked. OK, yeah, I understand why this would be happening in Massachusetts, and I know there aren't any kids who I know to identify as Natives in that school, but still, it's an example of covert racism. Due to the fact that Natives are now a TINY minority, especially in this area, it's apparently acceptable to majorly objectify them this way. I mean, we don't go around in our schools making "Black people" out of paper plates for Black History Month, because that would be extremely offensive to just about everyone. As it should be. But since there aren't any Natives readily observable in most of the schools around here, this goes over. I found it very offensive because I grew up with a lot of Natives in my schools and have cousins who are half Native and have tribal affiliation, but most people around here (and sadly in much of the US and the world) aren't going to feel this way. It isn't because they're hateful, but just because there's nothing in their experience that's going to make them immediately think their paper plate project is offensive.

A better idea might be to learn about how Thanksgiving is also a national day of mourning for Natives, and to hook the kids up with a penpal project with tribally affiliated kids and have them e-mail each other about how Thanksgiving is observed in Boston and how it's observed by Natives. That way, the Native kids get a real image of real kids having fun around a Thanksgiving table with their friends and family, and they realize that OK, so the history has in fact gotten bastardized, but these Boston kids and families really aren't barbarians but are just regular people who have fun during their culture's celebrations. The Boston kids learn that the Natives observe the day quite differently, but that they share a similarity in that these kids are also preserving a version of their past and that they look forward to connecting with family and friends and to having their own rituals, and that they're real living people just like them -- not paper plates painted red with big noses and feathers glued to them.

So this is just one example of how to be actively anti-racist without much effort. It doesn't mean that the particular people who have grown up thinking these red paper plates is the norm are racists per se, but it shows how it takes some pretty damn active undoing to move toward a society where we don't do unintentionally racist things like making paper-plate Indians.

(Incidentally, the big grinning buckle-wearing "pilgrims" are pretty offensive to people who're descended from White "settlers" as well, because they also faced disease and hunger and were multi-dimensional people who don't need to be objectified either, and, well, the whole sugar-coated inaccurate depiction of history just doesn't do anyone a whole lot of good.)


If you can prove to me that kids only cut out pilgrims and Indians in this area, I MAY but what you're selling. But I'm willing to bet that happens in places all across the country. Also, please tell me what is racist about it. Didn't the pilgrims encounter Native Americans when they journeyed here? If they were showing the Indians or pilgrims being tortured I'd have a problem but by simply cutting out figurines as proof that Boston is racist...you aren't too convincing. If they cut out figures of British Red Coats on patriots Day...is that racist too?

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By eeka - Apr 20, 2004, 6:59 PM
Post #21 of 162 [In reply to]

Oh, I'm sure it's done other places in the US and elsewhere. I can tell you though that it would not be done in places where there's a large population of tribally affiliated Natives. As I said, it wouldn't go over here to make constrution-paper Black people or Latino/a people. I doubt any teacher in Boston (or most places) would think to be so objectifying toward these visible populations. Just like how where I grew up, no teacher would even think of cutting out little Indians.

I DO think it would contribute to racism to make little paper redcoats or patriots. It just perpetuates this belief that people and groups should be objectified, and there are much more interesting and educational things that schoolchildren could do with their time.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By AmeriKenArtist - Apr 20, 2004, 7:03 PM
Post #22 of 162 [In reply to]

Your post brought back memories of construction cutouts we did of our own profiles! Smile

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM
By Oracle - Apr 20, 2004, 7:19 PM
Post #23 of 162 [In reply to]


In Reply To
Oh, I'm sure it's done other places in the US and elsewhere. I can tell you though that it would not be done in places where there's a large population of tribally affiliated Natives. As I said, it wouldn't go over here to make constrution-paper Black people or Latino/a people. I doubt any teacher in Boston (or most places) would think to be so objectifying toward these visible populations. Just like how where I grew up, no teacher would even think of cutting out little Indians.

I DO think it would contribute to racism to make little paper redcoats or patriots. It just perpetuates this belief that people and groups should be objectified, and there are much more interesting and educational things that schoolchildren could do with their time.


Exactly where was it you grew up? Isn't this a Boston site?

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM
By Oracle - Apr 20, 2004, 7:23 PM
Post #24 of 162 [In reply to]


In Reply To
The olde joke goes;the day of the Boston Marathon is the only day of the year a black person can going running through the predominately WHITE,LIBERAL communities of the Boston Marathon route without a resident calling the cops.


Massachusetts,Home of Ted Kennedy,Pro-Liberal,Pro-Diversity land meanwhile the path of the Boston Marathon goes through several communties all predominately WHITE and Liberal while bypassing the nearby predominately BLACK communities. Racism or a coincidence? Racism.

The Boston Marathon has run the same route,though the same communties for 107 years therefore how could one suggest there is hidden racism in the present day route of the Boston Marathon ?

When the Boston Marathon began in 1897,all the communities along the route of the Marathon and nearby communties were ALL white. Even today's all BLACK communities were all white in 1897.

So how is it the communities the Boston Marathon runs though today have all remained WHITE while the nearby communities of Roxbury,Dorchester,and Mattapan became all BLACK?

The Boston Marathon has a hidden racist element and it is revealed today,April 19,2004.


The word 'racist' is so loosely used that it has lost its meaning in day-to-day use. I don't think the Boston Marathon can be considered racist in any sense of the word, in fact it would be considered just the opposite.

And I think it is wise to avoid holding the Boston marathon in any high crime area.

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Re: the BOSTON MARATHON'S HIDDEN RACISM

By Fred Sennott - Apr 20, 2004, 7:45 PM
Post #25 of 162 [In reply to]

SmileBeso,in the same veinback about forty yeras ago when the Revolutionary war re-enactments started in this area,the Charlestown Militia used red coats made out of the cheapest red cloth they could buy and they all wore light infantry helmets cut out of paper.A hollywood makeup artist who lived in Boston area Vincent Kehoe was upset by this anmd formed HM Xth Reg't of foot the forerunner of several reiments of British regiments of re-enactors in authentic uniforms of the era also trained in the drill and tactics used in 1775.Most of these units are still active.
Trust in God and sin not.Don't blame me I'm like Sparky I voted for Sarah to.

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