I beg to differ with you a little bit here: There WAS plenty of outrage over the stabbing--many, many people in the community are quite upset about it, and sorry that it happened, because Beresford was killed, and in such a brutal manner, at that. I don't think that race was a factor in this at all--he just tried to STOP a mugging, and the two guys turned on him, which is unfortunate.
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By Fred Sennott - May 29, 2005, 8:27 PM Post #27 of 55 [In reply to]
Its still a hate crime.Thugs no matter what their race are haters. Trust in God and sin not.Don't blame me I'm like Sparky I voted for Sarah to.
how come your outrage took 3 weeks to surface?
By Ron Newman - May 29, 2005, 10:16 PM Post #29 of 55 [In reply to]
Defining all violent crime as 'hate crime' makes the latter term meaningless.
Point well taken, Ron. Thanks
By eeka - May 30, 2005, 1:13 PM Post #31 of 55 [In reply to]
Yep. I think though that it doesn't necessarily have to be congruent with systematic oppression. If it's determined that someone killed a WASP because they hate WASPs, this could be a hate crime. If someone harms a member of a marginalized group and appears to show no remorse and to not think of the person as a fellow human, then this may be a hate crime without knowledge of a specific motive or of marks of a hate crime such as slurs painted at the scene, etc.
By Scott - May 31, 2005, 7:38 AM Post #32 of 55 [In reply to]
Just to play devils advocate... What does it matter what the motivation is?... Isn`t a murder a murder and an assault an assault? -------------------------------- Meeb shall return to us!!
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but our legal system does have a tradition of trying to look into the perpetrator's mind and motivations when deciding what crime applies. There's a legal difference between deliberately, methodically planning to kill someone and then carrying it out, versus killing him on purpose in the heat of passion when you hadn't previously planned to do so (as in, a fight getting out of hand) versus doing something that results in his death when you didn't really intend to do so (as in, you get into a shoving match and the person slips and whacks his head on the concrete and in a freak accident it kills him). Hate crime laws are, I think, an expansion of this concept: But the definition of a hate crime needs to be pretty tight. Just because the perps and victims were of two groups often at odds (racially, religiously, ethnically) doesn't automatically prove (or even suggest) a hate crime. Nothing of interest here. Move along
By Ron Newman - May 31, 2005, 11:11 AM Post #34 of 55 [In reply to]
And in this case, we have absolutely no evidence that the victim was targeted because he was white, or because he was gay. It seems much more likely that he was killed while being robbed.
By eeka - May 31, 2005, 12:49 PM Post #35 of 55 [In reply to]
Right, and someone can also be charged with various types of negligence, if someone dies due to actions that clearly weren't aimed at harming anyone but that weren't too bright. You're driving faster than you should be in the rain, which isn't the best idea, and you skid into a kid who ran out into the road. The charge is more than "too fast for conditions" and a $50 fine, since a kid died, but it wouldn't be homicide since you didn't intend to harm anyone.
Actually, many years ago, I read a rather horrific story in our local paper(Boston Globe) about a Boy Scout Troop leader who was driving 3 Boy Scouts from his troop home from a meeting one night, in a soaking wet rain. Well, the Scoutmaster, who was clearly going way too fast for existing conditions (in his brand-new car, to boot) skidded on the wet pavement and ended up having a terrible, terrible accident, where the three boys(high school age) were forcibly ejected from the car, the car was demolished, and, miraculously enough, the scoutmaster was uninjured. The Scoutmaster was charged with negligent homicide. Not sure what he got for a sentence, though. This grisly incident took place in my old hometown, and one of the three kids killed in that horrible accident had been a friend of my younger brother's, but they'd been on the outs for a couple of years.
By eeka - Jun 1, 2005, 9:40 AM Post #37 of 55 [In reply to]
Ugh, sorry to hear that. If they were ejected, they were most likely not wearing seatbelts, yes? If people under 16 or under guardianship are not buckled in, the driver bears the responsibility for this.
The three kids, who were high school freshmen. were not wearing seatbelts, which is why they were ejected from the car. The fact that the Scoutmaster was charged with negligent homicide seems to be a good indication that the driver was held responsible.
By eeka - Jun 1, 2005, 1:16 PM Post #39 of 55 [In reply to]
Right, just pointing out that the seatbelts thing was a component of his charge; he could still have been charged due to his driving if they had been wearing seatbelts.
Very true, eeka. In fact, the Scoutmaster was charged with negligent homicide due mainly to his driving, and justifiably so. Don't know what kind of a sentence he got, but here's hoping it was a harsh one.
By eeka - Jun 1, 2005, 8:02 PM Post #41 of 55 [In reply to]
Well, the seatbelt thing is a no-brainer, and I think it's good to publicize these things so that people will think about insisting kids are buckled up. Hell, insisting your adult friends buckle up too.
Right on, eeka!!
By eeka - Jun 2, 2005, 8:50 AM Post #43 of 55 [In reply to]
Miki, don't make me turn this car around right now!
Your seatbelt is secure for such a procedure, is it not?
By adamg - Jun 2, 2005, 8:58 AM Post #45 of 55 [In reply to]
By triquetra - Jun 2, 2005, 9:21 AM Post #46 of 55 [In reply to]
But Aaaaaddddaaammm, she's on my siiiiide! *~*~*~* Luceo non uro
By eeka - Jun 2, 2005, 9:28 AM Post #47 of 55 [In reply to]
ADAM MIKI'S TOUCHING MEEEEEEE
By adamg - Jun 2, 2005, 9:44 AM Post #48 of 55 [In reply to]
So help me! YOU! Keep your fingers to yourself! And YOU! Stop bothering your sister!
By eeka - Jun 2, 2005, 10:00 AM Post #49 of 55 [In reply to]
DrSns: Wake up! It's late! It's twenty minutes after eight Everyone get up; it's time to go Up and at 'em now Come on; shake a leg Have some juice and scrambled egg On the floor and out the door Let's get on our way. Dot : Hey, watch out! Yakko: What's the matter? Dot : You almost knocked me off the ladder Yakko: No I didn't Dot : Yes you did; I almost fell Yakko: Don't exaggerate Dot : I'm not Yakko: Yeah, right Dot : Are you trying to pick a fight? Yakko: Will you get out of my face?! Dot : Well, you're always in my space DrSns: Hey get off each other's case Because we're trying to get along. Wakko: I want pancakes Or a waffle This tastes awful Is that all we've got? Can't find my clothes And I need to blow my nose And my socks are full holes And my shoelace has a knot. Dot : That's my toothbrush Yakko: No it's not Dot : Well, it's sitting in my slot Yakko: No it isn't; this is mine and that one's yours Dot : Well, you're standing in my way Yakko: Yeah, that's tough DrSns: Alright now that's enough Everybody get your stuff Because we're going out the door. DrSns: Every time we get into the car It's so much work It takes us twenty minutes While you're driving me berserk With your playing und your jumping Und your running all about When I finally get you inside You always lock me out! Dot : I'm mad, I'm mad I'm really, really, really mad You poked me with your elbow in my side Yakko: No I didn't! Dot : Yes you did Yakko: Nuh-uh Dot : You did And I'm just a little kid You're lying; don't deny it Yakko: Oh, I'm gonna hit you Dot : Yeah, just try it DrSns: Will both of you be quiet 'Cause we're driving in a car! Dot : Ow, he hit me! Yakko: Ow, she bit me! Dot : He said he's gonna "get me" Yakko: No I didn't Dot : Yes you did! DrSns: Alright that's it; now I forbid Either one of you to say another word! Wakko: Are we there yet? I'm tired. I'm hungry. How far? My nose is snotty Need to move my body Gotta use the potty Better stop the car. Dot : Stop it! Yakko: No, you stop it DrSns: Why can't you both just drop it? Dot : Well, he started it Yakko: Oh, yeah, I'm really sure, uh-huh Dot : Na-ah Yakko: Uh-uh Dot : It's your fault Yakko: No it's not. Your leg is in my spot DrSns: Yakko you be quiet Und that goes for you too, Dot! DrSnS: Every time we take a trip It's always just the same With the fighting und the biting Und the calling all those names Then there's pushing und there's shoving Und there's scratching on the neck When we finally get to where we're going Everyone's a wreck! YW+D : Yak yak yak yak yak yak yak yak yak yak yak yak yak! Dot : I'm mad, I'm mad Wakko: Are we there yet? I'm really, really, really mad I'm tired. You poked me with your elbow in my side I'm hungry. Yakko: No I didn't! How far? Dot : Yes, you did, you did My nose is snotty And I'm just a little kid Need to move my body DrSns: Will both of you be quiet Got to use the potty 'Cause we're driving in a car! Better stop the car. DrSns: We're here, we're here Doesn't anybody want to give a cheer? Yakko: You mean this is where we're all gonna spend the day? Dot : At the circus?! Wakko: Hey, guys, look! They got rides! DrSns: Now you're satisfied? Alright, everyone inside And let's have some fun, okay? YW+D : Yay!!! Dot : I'm glad, I'm glad What a really great time we had Did you see those lions and those tigers Weren't they neat? DrSns: Are you happy now? Dot : We are; thanks a lot I'm sorry that we fought From now on I'll get along Yakko: That's alright, Dot; I was wrong DrSns: Ah that's nice, now come along Let's all get in the car. Dot : You can take the seat you like You're always so gallant Yakko: Ah, thank you, Dot, but ladies first You take the seat you want DrSns: Everybody's happy now We've had a real good day Und now it's time to go back home So let's be on our way. Dot : You hit me Yakko: No I didn't Dot : Yes you did. Stop it! Yakko: No, you stop it Dot : Move your leg Yakko: No, you move your leg Dot : You started it Yakko: No I didn't, you did Dot : No I didn't, you did Yakko: So what? Dot : You always start it! Yakko: Don't you cross that line! Dot : You're not the boss of me! Yakko: This is where the line is, right here! Dot : Oh yeah? Since when? Get out of my face! I'm the boss here! Yakko: Dr Scratchansniff, she started it!
By Michael Kerpan - Jun 2, 2005, 10:10 AM Post #50 of 55 [In reply to]
Haven't the Animaniacs' antics been released on DVD? Ditto for Pinky and the Brain.
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